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welcome to fans of the hidden fruit show

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podcast

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I'm Jim Breslow welcome to our youtube

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version of the podcast those of you who

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are fans know that the hidden truth show

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has just launched our new season a deep

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dive into the transgender movement this

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season starts with an interview entitled

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my fraternity brother who became my

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sister my fraternity brother dave was

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the long-haired rocker dude in college

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who wore makeup and jewelry what we

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didn't know was what Dave was doing on

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the weekends Dave as it turns out was

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sneaking away to West Hollywood spend

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time in the trans community he married

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his college sweetheart had two children

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but ultimately could not contains trans

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feelings any longer he transitioned to

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being Sabrina Sabrina just recently went

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through this transition but she didn't

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get the full surgery and she explains

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why she thinks many trans women are

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making a big mistake by having the

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surgery

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Sabrina agreed to sit down with me and

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have a no-holds-barred conversation

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about what it means to be trans I

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thought it was a great way to start this

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season we did over over three

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consecutive Wednesday nights each of us

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with the gin and tonic in hand helped

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get the edge off to start but by the

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time we got started it went in very

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deeply personal in emotional directions

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and what resulted was a three-part

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interview that is very compelling for

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both people in the community and outside

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the community to hear it's a very

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important start as we dig into the

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hidden truth behind behind the

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transgender movement I think you're

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gonna really enjoy this interview and if

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you do check out the hidden truth show

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podcast

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interview starts with Sabrina explaining

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why she agreed to sit down and have this

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interview yeah it's just education I'm

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aware on every single day that when I go

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out in public we're talking about Los

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Angeles here now when I go out in public

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that is likely the first time that

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anyone has ever met come face to face

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with the trans that they've interacted

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with the trans and I take that

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opportunity very seriously in the sense

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that

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to meet one of us and once you know it's

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the simple human nature that once they

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meet anything once a human being comes

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in contact with somebody they're no

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longer afraid of it they don't fear it

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anymore and then they don't you know

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reject it and and you know stigmatize

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and all that kind of stuff and so it's

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about bringing down those curtains so

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that's you know they just know we're

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just humans just like the rest now I do

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have to ask you how do you do that in

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just everyday situations I know you'd

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mentioned before for instance uber

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drivers

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how are you having a conversation with

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the uber driver about don't you know I

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don't make any know like hey by the way

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on trans you know but you know as kind

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of as great as I look I still feel that

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many people can figure out that I'm

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trans and that's great I I actually kind

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of appreciate that I'm not entirely what

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they say passable because it allows them

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to see who I am and allows them without

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you know direct conversation about the

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topic to simply meet Who I am now

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speaking of that have you fully

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transitioned what do you mean by that

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well major surgery the ultimate surgery

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so I wouldn't say that there's any one

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ultimate surgery and every girl is

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different in terms of what they want to

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achieve for me I got a breast

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augmentation but and then I I got what's

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called an orchiectomy which is having my

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testicles removed but I still kept my

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penis and it still works

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gotcha yeah and is that kind of the most

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common type of surgery that so when I

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was little Nina growing up here in Los

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Angeles and you know by the time I was

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12 I had trans friends and by the time I

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was 16 I was hanging out them with them

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secretly because I couldn't hang out

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with them and let my friends and family

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know I was still was scared to death of

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what this was and and back then it was

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rare that a girl would actually get

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what's called what do they call it

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gender reassignment surgery

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which is you know getting the penis

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turned into a vagina and it was really

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rare and the one girl who would who

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would say she's gonna do it

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all the other girls would literally jump

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on her and start attacking her and say

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what are you doing you're gonna ruin

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your life and they all seem to know

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these these trans women back then really

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seem to know that it was the proverbial

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unicorn cutting off their corn to look

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like a horse what's the sense in that if

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you're born this exotic animal that's

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different than you know that's literally

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the one in the million why would you

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want to try and look ordinary and and

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they also knew that many of the women

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who had that surgery really got

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themselves in a hole because men didn't

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want them men who won a vagina want a

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real vagina and lesbians were the same

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thing lesbians for the most part wanted

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a woman with a real vagina so nobody

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wanted them and they would become alone

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they wouldn't have any dating life the

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and a lot of them became suicidal and

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these trans that I grew up with knew

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this and they would and they would just

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get so on top of these girls for like

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what are you doing you're gonna ruin

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your life if you do this and that's what

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I grew up with and that is a good number

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of years ago we're we're being frank and

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open about years so wait so it's

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probably you know close to 40 years ago

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you're saying that was going exactly

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right yeah and I'm really grateful that

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I grew up in this city that I was you

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know that I grew up with generation of

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trans women who were just so wise about

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being trans and and everything that

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implored in me like not to do something

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like that and so by the time I was 20 I

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knew two things obviously that I was

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trans and that I wanted to transition

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but I also knew that I would never leave

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on icky my penis that that was a great

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part of who I was overall it wasn't the

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only thing as my boyfriend will tell you

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you know I I loved every part of you

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including that but you know it's not

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that one part of you that I love I love

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everything and and so I knew at Ordnung

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I was gonna you know that I was going to

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transition eventually and that I was

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going to keep it and fast-forward today

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because of the advancement on trans

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issues

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this country and many countries have

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made it like UK have made it part of

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regular health insurance said of your

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dean trans you can get the full surgery

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covered by insurance basically 100% and

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you know if you go to a convention and

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there's free pens people clamor for that

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free pen right it seems like anytime you

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give away something for free you know

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people go crazy for it and now with the

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the sexual reassignment surgery being

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free

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these girls are lining up like they're

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giving away free pens without ever

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questioning like what am I really doing

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what's the life gonna be for me like

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after I get it done and they fall kid

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you're talking about the full surgical

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surgery which is you know can sexual

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reassignment surgery where you get the

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penis turned into a vagina it's a very

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complex surgery has a very high rate of

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complications there's no guarantee that

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it's even gonna work you might be peeing

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side was the rest of your life and they

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just card all that science and just go

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to it thinking and wrongly thinking that

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by getting the surgery they're gonna be

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a real woman and they're not you're

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always gonna be a trans woman and to try

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and get away with get away from that is

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exactly like Michael Jackson trying to

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be the white person he was trying to

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become he's still Michael Jackson and

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why would you want to be thing anything

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different than Michael Jackson right and

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so these girls think like if they get

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this done there'll be a real woman and

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all the problems will be solved but it

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doesn't work that way

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they're still trans and it's funny

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because there's been you know there's a

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lot of I would say far right or either

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is a shion's religious groups just

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definitely the right side of the

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population that you know you would

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forcefully say to them you're a man

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you'll never stop being a man well

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you're not a man you're a trans person

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and that was that's something that'll

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never stop happening you're always gonna

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be trans and why is that a bad thing

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even my transistors who are generally

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proud and very accomplished at where

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they are in life still like a very

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common discussion is like I I got asked

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on a date I tell him

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well that shouldn't even be a question

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not only sure you tell him but you

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should tell him like you won a gold

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medal at the Olympics it should be

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something that you're proud of not

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something that you're running from

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scared like why do you think it's

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something to be ashamed of it's

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something to be proud of so alot easier

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girls go through the full surgery

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because they're running from being trans

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and again they think it will solve their

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problems and it doesn't it causes even

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more problems and limits for you further

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limits their dating pool and people who

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want to see them women that are becoming

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men what is the most common surgery that

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they're getting in the genitalia area so

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I have a lot of female to male transfer

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ends and it's I think it's a very

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interesting phenomenon because here on

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one side the male to female you have

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this cata call of trans women won't you

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like vine to get their penises cut off

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but on the female to male trans

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nearly basically none of them want to

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change anything on their genitalia they

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want to keep their vaginas

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many of them are lesbians and I have a

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lot of lesbian friends and lesbians like

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the vagina and so they want to keep the

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aspect that attracts what they're

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attracted to in another human being

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romantically so they they have very

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little desire as a whole population of

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wanting to do anything different to

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their genitalia the elective system to

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change and get their hair on their chest

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hair on their face and the muscles they

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love but they love keeping their videos

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and there is a surgery I was just gonna

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say surgery it's not it's not on par

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with the success of the male to female

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sexual reassignment surgery getting

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penis to vagina you know it's this

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implant it doesn't look very good it's

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not quite very functional so there's a

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lot of things a lot of issues with it

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but from talking with them that's not

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the reason they don't seek it it's

274
00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:01,670
because they just generally would like

275
00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:03,530
to keep their vaginas what was the

276
00:11:06,310 --> 00:11:04,370
insurance that your

277
00:11:08,470 --> 00:11:06,320
referring to that had been covering the

278
00:11:10,510 --> 00:11:08,480
surgeries really everyone's health

279
00:11:12,850 --> 00:11:10,520
insurance and in the u.s. every health

280
00:11:17,230 --> 00:11:12,860
insurance company is now required to

281
00:11:19,450 --> 00:11:17,240
offer trans care okay so if you have an

282
00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:19,460
insurance policy in the u.s. you're in

283
00:11:24,940 --> 00:11:21,410
whatever standard pool that everybody

284
00:11:27,310 --> 00:11:24,950
else is in and is covered provided you

285
00:11:29,410 --> 00:11:27,320
go through the proper various procedures

286
00:11:32,019 --> 00:11:29,420
yeah there's protocol and you want to

287
00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:32,029
make sure you're not crazy and that you

288
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:33,650
really are trans and this really makes

289
00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:35,210
sense and that obviously would be then

290
00:11:40,510 --> 00:11:37,010
the woman's surgery to become a man

291
00:11:41,970 --> 00:11:40,520
would be covered - theoretically yes and

292
00:11:46,660 --> 00:11:41,980
the surgery that you had would be

293
00:11:48,100 --> 00:11:46,670
covered it's not just the full so you

294
00:11:49,300 --> 00:11:48,110
said you had the more limited surgery

295
00:11:53,530 --> 00:11:49,310
yes all I had

296
00:11:57,940 --> 00:11:53,540
oh the the orc yes yes orchiectomy that

297
00:12:03,040 --> 00:11:57,950
is covered but it was a very funny

298
00:12:05,170 --> 00:12:03,050
process and my my provider is Kaiser

299
00:12:09,220 --> 00:12:05,180
I love Kaiser Kaiser is great and they

300
00:12:10,930 --> 00:12:09,230
actually have great trances but medical

301
00:12:13,329 --> 00:12:10,940
protocol which is in Keiser's it's this

302
00:12:16,150 --> 00:12:13,339
is a international medical protocol

303
00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:16,160
dictates that you have to go through a

304
00:12:20,530 --> 00:12:18,050
series of interview it's generally over

305
00:12:22,990 --> 00:12:20,540
about a year year and a half to get the

306
00:12:24,850 --> 00:12:23,000
doctors collectively to conclude that

307
00:12:27,790 --> 00:12:24,860
this makes sense for you and sign off

308
00:12:30,390 --> 00:12:27,800
and you know be they're afraid of

309
00:12:33,610 --> 00:12:30,400
getting sued maybe one of the reasons

310
00:12:36,220 --> 00:12:33,620
because it's such a being being half

311
00:12:38,290 --> 00:12:36,230
facetious but you know you're it's a

312
00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:38,300
semi irreversible thing so you want to

313
00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:40,130
make sure right right there's definitely

314
00:12:46,740 --> 00:12:42,410
some truth to that but I think the

315
00:12:50,019 --> 00:12:46,750
greater the greater thought to it is

316
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:50,029
this is a permanent irreversible surgery

317
00:12:54,850 --> 00:12:52,610
and we don't want to do this on somebody

318
00:12:55,690 --> 00:12:54,860
that two years later goes what did you

319
00:12:58,180 --> 00:12:55,700
guys do to me

320
00:12:59,079 --> 00:12:58,190
you know I just was I was a crazy time

321
00:13:01,480 --> 00:12:59,089
in my life

322
00:13:02,620 --> 00:13:01,490
why did you do this to me and so I think

323
00:13:04,300 --> 00:13:02,630
they're just dotting the eyes and

324
00:13:06,220 --> 00:13:04,310
crossing the t's and as they they should

325
00:13:07,630 --> 00:13:06,230
as a medical community that's what

326
00:13:09,519 --> 00:13:07,640
they're there to do to protect you from

327
00:13:11,470 --> 00:13:09,529
harming yourself and to do the best for

328
00:13:13,900 --> 00:13:11,480
your body so I think I think overall

329
00:13:16,180 --> 00:13:13,910
it's right but for a girl like me who's

330
00:13:18,430 --> 00:13:16,190
known I was trans since I was 12 to have

331
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:18,440
to sit in an office and prove to

332
00:13:23,949 --> 00:13:20,810
somebody else that you are what you are

333
00:13:26,170 --> 00:13:23,959
imagine if you go to the doctor you know

334
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:26,180
they say Jim prove to me that you're a

335
00:13:29,770 --> 00:13:28,490
guy you're like okay like okay good

336
00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:29,780
let's go back to when you were seven

337
00:13:33,670 --> 00:13:31,850
what kind of car things did you do and

338
00:13:35,350 --> 00:13:33,680
you're like okay I play with trucks I

339
00:13:37,150 --> 00:13:35,360
threw balls around you're like yeah but

340
00:13:37,990 --> 00:13:37,160
like how did you dress you know and

341
00:13:40,390 --> 00:13:38,000
you're going through these interviews

342
00:13:41,740 --> 00:13:40,400
going like duh before those the type of

343
00:13:43,270 --> 00:13:41,750
questions you're being asked basically

344
00:13:46,180 --> 00:13:43,280
you know you're having to go through

345
00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:46,190
this history of your life as a female

346
00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:48,170
trying to trying to ask you these

347
00:13:52,390 --> 00:13:50,510
questions to demonstrate that you're

348
00:13:54,810 --> 00:13:52,400
really a woman and what kind of doctor

349
00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:54,820
is it that's asking those things

350
00:14:00,370 --> 00:13:56,930
therapists like the psychologists a

351
00:14:02,470 --> 00:14:00,380
psychiatrist psychiatrist yeah and that

352
00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:02,480
went on for you for about a year now you

353
00:14:07,510 --> 00:14:04,610
know it's funny because I got the Kaiser

354
00:14:09,370 --> 00:14:07,520
programs like if I can get them to sign

355
00:14:11,949 --> 00:14:09,380
off and do this within six months fine

356
00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:11,959
but I'm in a financial position that I

357
00:14:15,220 --> 00:14:13,490
don't really have to wait for this I can

358
00:14:16,990 --> 00:14:15,230
pay for it myself particularly that

359
00:14:19,690 --> 00:14:17,000
surgery was only like I don't know five

360
00:14:21,670 --> 00:14:19,700
thousand bucks so it's like I gave him a

361
00:14:23,110 --> 00:14:21,680
shot but after I don't know two

362
00:14:24,819 --> 00:14:23,120
interviews I'm like this is really

363
00:14:26,590 --> 00:14:24,829
stupid I had no patience for it and I

364
00:14:29,590 --> 00:14:26,600
went to my doctor I said let's go do it

365
00:14:31,060 --> 00:14:29,600
oh so you for the time you decided I'm

366
00:14:33,220 --> 00:14:31,070
going to do this it ended up being a

367
00:14:34,569 --> 00:14:33,230
relatively short ya period of time well

368
00:14:37,180 --> 00:14:34,579
I I would say that from the time I

369
00:14:39,460 --> 00:14:37,190
started realizing I wanted to get the or

370
00:14:41,470 --> 00:14:39,470
key it was probably twelve months so I

371
00:14:44,470 --> 00:14:41,480
actually got it done because it was

372
00:14:46,449 --> 00:14:44,480
probably because I every step of this I

373
00:14:48,940 --> 00:14:46,459
took a lot of patience and consideration

374
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:48,950
myself before I undertook anything even

375
00:14:53,380 --> 00:14:50,770
before he took the first hormone pill I

376
00:14:55,030 --> 00:14:53,390
studied you know and I know when I was

377
00:14:57,579 --> 00:14:55,040
transferred years but still this is like

378
00:14:59,740 --> 00:14:57,589
you know life changing and I and I just

379
00:15:01,269 --> 00:14:59,750
wanted to make sure I did my research on

380
00:15:03,490 --> 00:15:01,279
the science how this stuff was gonna

381
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:03,500
affect my body what the risks were for

382
00:15:07,300 --> 00:15:05,120
me and it was the same thing so I

383
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:07,310
probably for six months

384
00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:09,890
looks really closely at you know what

385
00:15:15,130 --> 00:15:12,050
are any any medical pros or cons from

386
00:15:18,150 --> 00:15:15,140
this and am I gonna suffer in any way is

387
00:15:20,890 --> 00:15:18,160
my body gonna suffer do I lose any like

388
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:20,900
you know strength or whatever I just

389
00:15:24,340 --> 00:15:22,010
want to make sure this was something

390
00:15:26,110 --> 00:15:24,350
that I wanted to do so after six months

391
00:15:27,970 --> 00:15:26,120
of going okay yeah this makes sense for

392
00:15:29,290 --> 00:15:27,980
me then it was six months of working

393
00:15:31,450 --> 00:15:29,300
with Kaiser and then I was

394
00:15:34,900 --> 00:15:31,460
now I'm just gonna do it and when was

395
00:15:36,970 --> 00:15:34,910
that May of last year may have last year

396
00:15:38,620 --> 00:15:36,980
okay I didn't realize is that recent

397
00:15:41,830 --> 00:15:38,630
yeah then I got the or key I got the

398
00:15:44,020 --> 00:15:41,840
other surgeries couple like two three

399
00:15:46,750 --> 00:15:44,030
years ago gotcha

400
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:46,760
so I've gonna started talking a little

401
00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:48,890
bit more about our college days together

402
00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:51,170
you UC Irvine then we'll get back to

403
00:15:56,380 --> 00:15:54,290
that stuff but we were Sigma Kai's

404
00:15:58,510 --> 00:15:56,390
together I thought we should alert

405
00:16:00,880 --> 00:15:58,520
people a little bit about the Sigma Chi

406
00:16:02,860 --> 00:16:00,890
fraternity fraternity of John Wayne Brad

407
00:16:06,130 --> 00:16:02,870
Pitt Tom Selleck and David Letterman am

408
00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:06,140
i missing any big ones when I told some

409
00:16:10,450 --> 00:16:07,970
people that I was gonna be interviewing

410
00:16:12,340 --> 00:16:10,460
you and they didn't know you not not

411
00:16:15,730 --> 00:16:12,350
returning by the mm-hmm that strikes me

412
00:16:18,010 --> 00:16:15,740
as odd that that she wanted to join a

413
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:18,020
fraternity especially since at that time

414
00:16:22,300 --> 00:16:19,610
you already had these very strong

415
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:22,310
feelings so walk me through that a

416
00:16:25,510 --> 00:16:23,930
little bit I'm just kind of curious so

417
00:16:27,370 --> 00:16:25,520
we do what was your thought process and

418
00:16:30,340 --> 00:16:27,380
deciding to join a fraternity which can

419
00:16:33,940 --> 00:16:30,350
be guys trying to be very manly or cool

420
00:16:35,650 --> 00:16:33,950
or whatever and and not necessarily the

421
00:16:38,410 --> 00:16:35,660
most respectful to women based on my

422
00:16:41,980 --> 00:16:38,420
recollection of fraternity days right so

423
00:16:43,300 --> 00:16:41,990
great story I mean you know again one

424
00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:43,310
thing we can get into the more but I

425
00:16:48,910 --> 00:16:46,850
knew by 12 but back when I was 12 no one

426
00:16:51,100 --> 00:16:48,920
was talking about this and so I didn't

427
00:16:54,370 --> 00:16:51,110
know what it was I knew you know by 12

428
00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:54,380
16 I had friends and I started learning

429
00:16:58,570 --> 00:16:56,210
but still they would seem to be in the

430
00:16:59,920 --> 00:16:58,580
shadows and I thought wow this I don't

431
00:17:01,750 --> 00:16:59,930
know if this is it seems maybe it's

432
00:17:04,030 --> 00:17:01,760
wrong and I didn't know what it was and

433
00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:04,040
so I just really kind of hid it from

434
00:17:09,540 --> 00:17:06,290
everybody meanwhile I tried to live a

435
00:17:13,060 --> 00:17:09,550
normal life I'm a very social person i

436
00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:13,070
I've always been engaged socially with

437
00:17:18,370 --> 00:17:15,890
tons of friends and family and so when I

438
00:17:20,500 --> 00:17:18,380
went to UC Irvine the way I got into

439
00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:20,510
Sigma Chi was pretty funny especially to

440
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:22,610
another one of our Sigma Chi brothers

441
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:25,010
that was really frustrated by my overall

442
00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:28,850
lack of actual direct desire to get in

443
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:32,570
the fraternity versus he and years

444
00:17:36,130 --> 00:17:34,250
before his dad was fraternity you know

445
00:17:37,630 --> 00:17:36,140
Sigma Chi you was gonna go Sigma Chi he

446
00:17:39,460 --> 00:17:37,640
was like the Sigma Chi all the way he

447
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:39,470
didn't get in his first year anyhow so

448
00:17:42,970 --> 00:17:41,930
I'm a freshman in the dorm and it was a

449
00:17:44,770 --> 00:17:42,980
Friday night and

450
00:17:47,140 --> 00:17:44,780
came from my dorm I don't to the other

451
00:17:48,970 --> 00:17:47,150
side of campus and Sigma Chi was having

452
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:48,980
their first rush party of the season in

453
00:17:53,470 --> 00:17:52,010
the Commons in my in my dorm area and I

454
00:17:55,659 --> 00:17:53,480
just see a party going on some lights

455
00:17:58,510 --> 00:17:55,669
and oh it appears to be a party so I

456
00:18:00,159 --> 00:17:58,520
stopped in and you know I'm a guy so

457
00:18:02,620 --> 00:18:00,169
they come on in and I don't even know

458
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:02,630
what it says but it seems cool and I go

459
00:18:07,180 --> 00:18:05,690
in and I'm back then you could drink it

460
00:18:09,220 --> 00:18:07,190
fraternity event so I'm having a couple

461
00:18:10,450 --> 00:18:09,230
of beers and guys are like hey why are

462
00:18:12,850 --> 00:18:10,460
you why are you here and I'm like I know

463
00:18:16,150 --> 00:18:12,860
I saw a party like really that's that's

464
00:18:17,409 --> 00:18:16,160
it yeah there's your name tag yeah and

465
00:18:19,810 --> 00:18:17,419
they're like you seem pretty cool

466
00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:19,820
because you know in college as you you

467
00:18:26,230 --> 00:18:22,370
know know it's like you know my hair was

468
00:18:27,460 --> 00:18:26,240
you know kind of down to my waist I wore

469
00:18:30,010 --> 00:18:27,470
really tight pants I mean I'm basically

470
00:18:32,350 --> 00:18:30,020
dressed like a girl under the pretext

471
00:18:34,330 --> 00:18:32,360
that I was this rocker right and it

472
00:18:36,970 --> 00:18:34,340
worked really well so it made you really

473
00:18:39,340 --> 00:18:36,980
cool it made me super cool in you know

474
00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:39,350
conservative Orange County UC Irvine it

475
00:18:45,850 --> 00:18:42,160
made me stand out so in going into

476
00:18:49,810 --> 00:18:45,860
college what was your feeling as far as

477
00:18:54,970 --> 00:18:49,820
like sexual orientation wise so really

478
00:18:56,710 --> 00:18:54,980
interesting story about that ever since

479
00:18:58,810 --> 00:18:56,720
my life I came became sexually out of

480
00:19:01,270 --> 00:18:58,820
this way I lost my virginity to a girl

481
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:01,280
within you know 18 months of losing my

482
00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:03,890
virginity to a guy and so I was always

483
00:19:09,130 --> 00:19:05,510
by but I'd only fall in love with girls

484
00:19:11,049 --> 00:19:09,140
and and when I was younger like entering

485
00:19:13,510 --> 00:19:11,059
the college about that point in time so

486
00:19:15,460 --> 00:19:13,520
I'm in college and I thought am I

487
00:19:18,130 --> 00:19:15,470
kidding myself maybe I maybe this is all

488
00:19:20,169 --> 00:19:18,140
just means I'm gay and so I tried to

489
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:20,179
experiment to see like okay well let my

490
00:19:24,130 --> 00:19:22,250
hair down with this I'm gay I'm gay I'll

491
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:24,140
accept it and so I tried to toy around

492
00:19:29,289 --> 00:19:27,290
with that but I wasn't and I just fell

493
00:19:32,020 --> 00:19:29,299
only in love with girls but occasionally

494
00:19:36,070 --> 00:19:32,030
I would hook up with a guy and it wasn't

495
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:36,080
until I took hormones which was now four

496
00:19:40,539 --> 00:19:37,090
or five years ago that I started

497
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:40,549
estrogen the hormones that's like

498
00:19:44,950 --> 00:19:42,410
overnight and I didn't expect this

499
00:19:47,470 --> 00:19:44,960
because none of the other even even the

500
00:19:51,070 --> 00:19:47,480
older trans women that I had known for

501
00:19:53,530 --> 00:19:51,080
years never told me about this it really

502
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:53,540
changed my polarity from like literally

503
00:19:59,960 --> 00:19:55,890
south to north where

504
00:20:01,789 --> 00:19:59,970
within 30 to 60 days I stopped losing a

505
00:20:03,220 --> 00:20:01,799
romantic interest in women and started

506
00:20:06,110 --> 00:20:03,230
being romantically interested in guys I

507
00:20:08,450 --> 00:20:06,120
totally did not expect that I can tell

508
00:20:11,269 --> 00:20:08,460
you I have a lot of friends who were

509
00:20:13,130 --> 00:20:11,279
never were trans we're never bisexual

510
00:20:15,289 --> 00:20:13,140
only liked women and they still only

511
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:15,299
liked women so it's not gonna like flip

512
00:20:20,779 --> 00:20:17,730
every person but it was obviously

513
00:20:22,940 --> 00:20:20,789
something inside of me that once the

514
00:20:25,009 --> 00:20:22,950
right hormone was introduced like my

515
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:25,019
polarity shifted to where I feel it

516
00:20:29,539 --> 00:20:27,450
should have been all along I always felt

517
00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:29,549
like a girl in a relationship with girls

518
00:20:37,009 --> 00:20:32,130
and so like we'd be like two cats you

519
00:20:39,889 --> 00:20:37,019
know my two and and it would

520
00:20:42,350 --> 00:20:39,899
cause conflict sometimes and you know

521
00:20:43,940 --> 00:20:42,360
I'd see guys in relationships with other

522
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:43,950
guys friends and they'd all be chill

523
00:20:47,210 --> 00:20:45,090
when their girlfriends would flip out

524
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:47,220
but I'd be like get crazy with them and

525
00:20:50,419 --> 00:20:48,450
I'm like I don't know something

526
00:20:51,350 --> 00:20:50,429
something's wrong here I took estrogen I

527
00:20:52,759 --> 00:20:51,360
start falling

528
00:20:55,610 --> 00:20:52,769
I might need some of that estrogen

529
00:20:59,659 --> 00:20:55,620
actually I'm seeing is not real chill

530
00:21:01,820 --> 00:20:59,669
when we get an argument so I started

531
00:21:06,100 --> 00:21:01,830
falling in love with guys and started

532
00:21:09,139 --> 00:21:06,110
just dating guys only and you know

533
00:21:11,269 --> 00:21:09,149
probably the most remarkable thing the

534
00:21:14,180 --> 00:21:11,279
most remarkable part about the change in

535
00:21:16,070 --> 00:21:14,190
transition and formal transition was

536
00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:16,080
that everything in my life became so

537
00:21:20,180 --> 00:21:18,000
peaceful all these balls in the air that

538
00:21:22,340 --> 00:21:20,190
were just you know up in the air the

539
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:22,350
whole time all sudden just came down and

540
00:21:26,629 --> 00:21:24,330
everything locked in place and I became

541
00:21:28,610 --> 00:21:26,639
really peaceful like I wasn't like

542
00:21:31,639 --> 00:21:28,620
struggling anymore with who I was and

543
00:21:33,470 --> 00:21:31,649
stuff I knew who I was then the estrogen

544
00:21:35,509 --> 00:21:33,480
seemed to like really lock that in and

545
00:21:37,460 --> 00:21:35,519
seemed to be the hormone that should

546
00:21:40,129 --> 00:21:37,470
have been my body all along it really

547
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:40,139
frustrated me because I felt like had I

548
00:21:44,060 --> 00:21:42,000
taken the hormones years earlier it

549
00:21:45,919 --> 00:21:44,070
could have resolved a lot of conflict in

550
00:21:48,950 --> 00:21:45,929
my life earlier that would have been

551
00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:48,960
healthy and so you know fast forward

552
00:21:53,299 --> 00:21:50,370
today I have a boyfriend of two years

553
00:21:56,750 --> 00:21:53,309
and you know how many guys have you

554
00:21:59,690 --> 00:21:56,760
dated since transitioning well you know

555
00:22:06,620 --> 00:21:59,700
it's I want to share them now as you see

556
00:22:07,940 --> 00:22:06,630
he's hard paying paying attention I have

557
00:22:08,860 --> 00:22:07,950
this whole perspective in fact this is a

558
00:22:10,990 --> 00:22:08,870
whole nother

559
00:22:13,870 --> 00:22:11,000
after this you know being being

560
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:13,880
socialized growing up as a guy society

561
00:22:19,299 --> 00:22:16,010
is treating me as a guy entitles me to

562
00:22:21,220 --> 00:22:19,309
that white male privilege okay now you

563
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:21,230
take you don't lose that when you

564
00:22:26,260 --> 00:22:23,330
transition all that knowledge wisdom

565
00:22:27,130 --> 00:22:26,270
experience is being treated as a white

566
00:22:31,299 --> 00:22:27,140
male privilege

567
00:22:33,790 --> 00:22:31,309
now you transition to a female and you

568
00:22:35,770 --> 00:22:33,800
know guys inside out you know guys

569
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:35,780
before I was one of the guys I was in a

570
00:22:40,420 --> 00:22:37,250
fraternity for peace you're in the club

571
00:22:42,210 --> 00:22:40,430
okay so I knew guys inside and now and

572
00:22:45,340 --> 00:22:42,220
now as a woman I was dangerous because

573
00:22:47,740 --> 00:22:45,350
you know when a guy would say something

574
00:22:50,740 --> 00:22:47,750
I knew what he meant where other girls

575
00:22:52,450 --> 00:22:50,750
really struggled for instance you know a

576
00:22:54,549 --> 00:22:52,460
girlfriend would call me and said you

577
00:22:56,410 --> 00:22:54,559
know I made a day this guy he's ten

578
00:22:59,590 --> 00:22:56,420
minutes late he's totally disrespecting

579
00:23:01,960 --> 00:22:59,600
me go no honey he's just like okay guys

580
00:23:03,970 --> 00:23:01,970
don't think about things they just do

581
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:03,980
right you know and you can rely on that

582
00:23:08,049 --> 00:23:05,570
they're their men their minds don't go

583
00:23:11,370 --> 00:23:08,059
like this about you know romance they

584
00:23:14,169 --> 00:23:11,380
just act and sometimes they are late

585
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:14,179
period and don't overthink it and guys

586
00:23:17,980 --> 00:23:16,490
are women are always thinking men are

587
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:17,990
like them's that they're just thinking

588
00:23:22,660 --> 00:23:19,610
thinking thinking all the time but

589
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:22,670
they're not and not to be not to condemn

590
00:23:27,610 --> 00:23:25,520
guys but romantically speaking there are

591
00:23:32,020 --> 00:23:27,620
a lot like dogs okay you love your dog

592
00:23:35,169 --> 00:23:32,030
I'm a dog person I love dogs you know so

593
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:35,179
it's not inferring anything bad but you

594
00:23:38,650 --> 00:23:37,010
know your dogs gonna misbehave it's

595
00:23:40,450 --> 00:23:38,660
gonna jump on the couch sometimes and

596
00:23:43,180 --> 00:23:40,460
you you don't go we need to have a talk

597
00:23:44,169 --> 00:23:43,190
about this in an hour we're gonna mean

598
00:23:45,970 --> 00:23:44,179
the bedroom we're gonna talk about no

599
00:23:48,010 --> 00:23:45,980
you say dog get off the get off the

600
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:48,020
couch get off the bed right now and you

601
00:23:51,610 --> 00:23:49,850
can talk and guys love direction and

602
00:23:53,890 --> 00:23:51,620
girls don't realize this they tiptoe

603
00:23:56,799 --> 00:23:53,900
around guys and make it and make drama

604
00:23:58,450 --> 00:23:56,809
happen to have a communication whereas

605
00:24:00,460 --> 00:23:58,460
if you just tell a guy get off the couch

606
00:24:02,980 --> 00:24:00,470
they'll go thank you okay I will

607
00:24:06,340 --> 00:24:02,990
no drama so there's all this stuff I

608
00:24:08,020 --> 00:24:06,350
knew about guys so I knew with guys guys

609
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:08,030
take a long time to fall in love girls

610
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:11,210
want commitment and stability guys want

611
00:24:18,070 --> 00:24:15,530
sex okay and you can't make a guy fall

612
00:24:20,020 --> 00:24:18,080
in love you you can't make a guy

613
00:24:22,330 --> 00:24:20,030
have commitment and stability that just

614
00:24:23,830 --> 00:24:22,340
that just happens over time that a guy

615
00:24:26,650 --> 00:24:23,840
falls in love but when a guy does fall

616
00:24:29,740 --> 00:24:26,660
in love with you he's you have him for

617
00:24:31,510 --> 00:24:29,750
life it's it's yours to mess up and so

618
00:24:33,430 --> 00:24:31,520
girls just generally don't understand

619
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:33,440
this so the show is getting a little bit

620
00:24:39,190 --> 00:24:36,290
too normal right now especially talking

621
00:24:41,050 --> 00:24:39,200
about the trans issues this is sounding

622
00:24:42,610 --> 00:24:41,060
like any normal relationship so let's

623
00:24:44,500 --> 00:24:42,620
ask a couple transfer related questions

624
00:24:46,660 --> 00:24:44,510
on that when you're on social media you

625
00:24:49,090 --> 00:24:46,670
do note on there that you're trans yeah

626
00:24:53,110 --> 00:24:49,100
okay on Facebook it says proud

627
00:24:54,550 --> 00:24:53,120
transgender woman and then when you

628
00:24:57,790 --> 00:24:54,560
first met him at the bar

629
00:25:00,130 --> 00:24:57,800
it comes out how and I didn't win and

630
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:00,140
what kind of bar was it so it was in

631
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:02,330
West Hollywood it was a notorious gay

632
00:25:05,980 --> 00:25:04,850
bar but it was for la pride we were

633
00:25:08,500 --> 00:25:05,990
there so we're actually coming up on our

634
00:25:09,990 --> 00:25:08,510
two-year anniversary and he's not gay he

635
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:10,000
was there with his two lesbian friends

636
00:25:14,890 --> 00:25:13,850
and I pride myself always pride myself

637
00:25:16,660 --> 00:25:14,900
on

638
00:25:18,310 --> 00:25:16,670
because I'm proud of being trans so I

639
00:25:21,190 --> 00:25:18,320
always pride myself when I was meeting

640
00:25:23,020 --> 00:25:21,200
guys in public the first the second I

641
00:25:24,700 --> 00:25:23,030
saw that they were interested and I

642
00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:24,710
realized I was interested I would

643
00:25:27,390 --> 00:25:25,910
literally give them a straight arm ago

644
00:25:30,340 --> 00:25:27,400
hey I'm trans

645
00:25:32,260 --> 00:25:30,350
just to make sure they knew mhm because

646
00:25:33,910 --> 00:25:32,270
it's a waste of both of our times to go

647
00:25:36,670 --> 00:25:33,920
on any further than that without them

648
00:25:38,740 --> 00:25:36,680
knowing and a lot of times one like this

649
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:38,750
I would tell them hey I'm trans by the

650
00:25:42,700 --> 00:25:40,730
way just to interrupt for a second what

651
00:25:45,940 --> 00:25:42,710
would the community if that's the right

652
00:25:49,210 --> 00:25:45,950
word for it say about that do they tend

653
00:25:51,850 --> 00:25:49,220
to agree is that their view something

654
00:25:55,180 --> 00:25:51,860
that you should do know there's there's

655
00:25:58,330 --> 00:25:55,190
if you go on like Facebook string posts

656
00:26:00,880 --> 00:25:58,340
about this again it's pretty sad thing

657
00:26:03,310 --> 00:26:00,890
or one of the sisters on social media

658
00:26:05,620 --> 00:26:03,320
will go oh I met this guy I'm going on a

659
00:26:08,380 --> 00:26:05,630
date should I tell him and like I said

660
00:26:09,580 --> 00:26:08,390
before I'm like yeah like why wouldn't

661
00:26:11,650 --> 00:26:09,590
you like this is something to be proud

662
00:26:13,630 --> 00:26:11,660
of but so it's still a question that's

663
00:26:16,120 --> 00:26:13,640
being asked all the time should you or

664
00:26:19,930 --> 00:26:16,130
should you not tell these trans women

665
00:26:22,420 --> 00:26:19,940
largely are not proud of being trans

666
00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:22,430
they'll tell you staunchly I'm a woman

667
00:26:27,070 --> 00:26:25,370
I'm not trans I'm a woman they don't

668
00:26:28,930 --> 00:26:27,080
want to hear that they're trans it's

669
00:26:30,670 --> 00:26:28,940
really really weird and so they're the

670
00:26:35,260 --> 00:26:30,680
ones mostly promoting

671
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:35,270
like you know this feeling of disgrace

672
00:26:40,030 --> 00:26:37,970
for being trans and like that's like

673
00:26:41,590 --> 00:26:40,040
something really incredible it's

674
00:26:43,900 --> 00:26:41,600
literally like I said being a unicorn

675
00:26:46,980 --> 00:26:43,910
say no I'm just a horse yeah why would

676
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:46,990
you want to just be a horse so I'm

677
00:26:50,290 --> 00:26:48,890
definitely a little bit different so you

678
00:26:52,870 --> 00:26:50,300
would say might you're in the minority

679
00:26:54,670 --> 00:26:52,880
for someone who would definitely come

680
00:26:57,580 --> 00:26:54,680
out that quickly to the person yes yeah

681
00:26:58,750 --> 00:26:57,590
yeah a lot of girls thinking is well I'm

682
00:27:00,940 --> 00:26:58,760
gonna take the time I'm gonna go on a

683
00:27:03,010 --> 00:27:00,950
couple dates with him let him get to

684
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:03,020
know me and and once he gets to know me

685
00:27:06,910 --> 00:27:05,210
then I'll tell him thinking like oh

686
00:27:08,260 --> 00:27:06,920
he'll kind of fall in love with me and

687
00:27:11,470 --> 00:27:08,270
then I'll tell him then he won't want to

688
00:27:13,420 --> 00:27:11,480
say no but all that happens is because

689
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:13,430
guys tell me this that have become my

690
00:27:17,860 --> 00:27:15,050
friends and stuff so they'll say you

691
00:27:19,780 --> 00:27:17,870
know that happens a lot of the trans

692
00:27:22,270 --> 00:27:19,790
women that they they play him for like

693
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:22,280
three dates and then they're in the

694
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:24,650
bedroom things are getting heated and

695
00:27:28,630 --> 00:27:26,570
then I go I have something to tell you

696
00:27:30,820 --> 00:27:28,640
and then it's not about being trans then

697
00:27:33,220 --> 00:27:30,830
it's about being feeling a betrayal

698
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:33,230
right that you've been lied to yeah by

699
00:27:36,550 --> 00:27:34,490
someone you're trying to forge a

700
00:27:38,950 --> 00:27:36,560
relationship with like that's the last

701
00:27:41,140 --> 00:27:38,960
thing you wanted and by the way if this

702
00:27:43,810 --> 00:27:41,150
male that you're talking to that had

703
00:27:44,860 --> 00:27:43,820
been appeared to be interested in you at

704
00:27:47,590 --> 00:27:44,870
a time and then you let him know that

705
00:27:49,450 --> 00:27:47,600
you're trans and he indicates oh gee

706
00:27:52,030 --> 00:27:49,460
thanks for letting me know and then kind

707
00:27:54,580 --> 00:27:52,040
of backs off is that offensive to you no

708
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:54,590
way in fact I get complimented when I

709
00:27:58,240 --> 00:27:57,170
was dating I was getting complemented

710
00:28:01,960 --> 00:27:58,250
all the time because I would I would

711
00:28:03,730 --> 00:28:01,970
tell the guys I you know brought a lot

712
00:28:05,860 --> 00:28:03,740
of a lot of guys hit me up all the time

713
00:28:09,310 --> 00:28:05,870
just in public I'm just you know no

714
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:09,320
matter where I go and so um I was

715
00:28:14,220 --> 00:28:11,090
engaging like this a lot hey I'm trans

716
00:28:17,530 --> 00:28:14,230
and they would say either I didn't know

717
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:17,540
but that's it's fine with me I look like

718
00:28:21,580 --> 00:28:19,730
a beautiful woman or they'd say I didn't

719
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:21,590
know but thank you so much and that's

720
00:28:24,850 --> 00:28:23,090
where they get the extra kudos like

721
00:28:27,340 --> 00:28:24,860
that's really cool that you're that

722
00:28:29,620 --> 00:28:27,350
proud that you just went out and told me

723
00:28:31,210 --> 00:28:29,630
like I have a major respect for you for

724
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:31,220
just coming out like that so I'd win a

725
00:28:36,970 --> 00:28:33,530
lot of respect and admiration for being

726
00:28:39,070 --> 00:28:36,980
that way and it also was exemplary for

727
00:28:40,930 --> 00:28:39,080
you know trans woman they came away

728
00:28:43,919 --> 00:28:40,940
feeling wow that's it well and it's the

729
00:28:46,289 --> 00:28:43,929
easiest point in the relationship

730
00:28:48,149 --> 00:28:46,299
to do it because you're relatively doing

731
00:28:50,039 --> 00:28:48,159
this dialogue with the person right it's

732
00:28:52,259 --> 00:28:50,049
your it's getting harder and harder each

733
00:28:54,359 --> 00:28:52,269
hour and day that you're with that

734
00:28:56,999 --> 00:28:54,369
person that you haven't told them to to

735
00:28:59,009 --> 00:28:57,009
tell them as if maybe they're thinking I

736
00:29:01,970 --> 00:28:59,019
mean never have to tell them but that's

737
00:29:05,940 --> 00:29:01,980
not not to mention dangerous

738
00:29:08,279 --> 00:29:05,950
you know trans women as a population are

739
00:29:11,730 --> 00:29:08,289
one of the most murdered segments of US

740
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:11,740
society and you have to ask yourself why

741
00:29:17,190 --> 00:29:13,210
is that and that's a really good

742
00:29:18,570 --> 00:29:17,200
question and you know people want to

743
00:29:21,930 --> 00:29:18,580
think particularly trans women want to

744
00:29:24,539 --> 00:29:21,940
think oh people are just you know being

745
00:29:27,210 --> 00:29:24,549
biased or hateful know what they don't

746
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:27,220
understand is that there's a lot of hard

747
00:29:34,649 --> 00:29:31,450
core biology in this that while the

748
00:29:37,009 --> 00:29:34,659
majority of men are bisexual by their

749
00:29:39,810 --> 00:29:37,019
very nature the Kinsey study proved that

750
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:39,820
and that trans woman would be that the

751
00:29:45,419 --> 00:29:43,090
the most perfect resource for a for a

752
00:29:48,210 --> 00:29:45,429
man with my tendencies because men want

753
00:29:50,190 --> 00:29:48,220
men who like women who men who are bi

754
00:29:52,049 --> 00:29:50,200
like women still want a woman figure and

755
00:29:55,169 --> 00:29:52,059
everything they just want to try out the

756
00:29:56,669 --> 00:29:55,179
male genitalia it's not that they want

757
00:29:59,100 --> 00:29:56,679
to necessarily do anything specific with

758
00:30:02,580 --> 00:29:59,110
it it's just having that exotic aspect

759
00:30:05,009 --> 00:30:02,590
that they fantasize about and so it's

760
00:30:07,590 --> 00:30:05,019
very prevalent that guys are fantasizing

761
00:30:10,340 --> 00:30:07,600
about trans women they don't talk about

762
00:30:14,340 --> 00:30:10,350
to their friends there's this thing that

763
00:30:16,830 --> 00:30:14,350
you know seventy plus percent of guys

764
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:16,840
fantasize one time another about being

765
00:30:21,359 --> 00:30:19,210
with a trans woman but 99% of am won't

766
00:30:23,759 --> 00:30:21,369
even tell their best friend for fear of

767
00:30:25,950 --> 00:30:23,769
being called out as gay and it's not gay

768
00:30:27,389 --> 00:30:25,960
women are allowed to be bisexual but men

769
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:27,399
aren't allowed to be bisexual you have

770
00:30:31,919 --> 00:30:29,610
to have this macho a stick image so

771
00:30:35,669 --> 00:30:31,929
beyond that seventy percent there's a

772
00:30:38,999 --> 00:30:35,679
good solid 30 plus percent of men who

773
00:30:41,159 --> 00:30:39,009
are not only heterosexual and they have

774
00:30:46,549 --> 00:30:41,169
no hatred towards gay people but they

775
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:46,559
are just so essentially straight that

776
00:30:51,659 --> 00:30:48,850
you know the thought of kissing another

777
00:30:53,700 --> 00:30:51,669
man or anything like a man is pictured

778
00:30:56,460 --> 00:30:53,710
to them is disgusting and it's not a

779
00:30:58,290 --> 00:30:56,470
bias it's not a discriminatory thing

780
00:31:00,990 --> 00:30:58,300
there is just a reaction

781
00:31:03,930 --> 00:31:01,000
or anything right and it's very toxic

782
00:31:06,450 --> 00:31:03,940
and if you trick a guy into kissing you

783
00:31:08,430 --> 00:31:06,460
who's one of these guys they get really

784
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:08,440
angry and you're in jeopardy of getting

785
00:31:13,290 --> 00:31:11,530
hurt if not killed yeah that I mean if

786
00:31:14,790 --> 00:31:13,300
you know I could understand the person

787
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:14,800
being upset because as you said it's

788
00:31:18,630 --> 00:31:16,570
kind of a betrayal and maybe it so

789
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:18,640
rightly so that should be upset now to

790
00:31:22,700 --> 00:31:20,410
go to that extra thing of the violence

791
00:31:25,020 --> 00:31:22,710
thing that's where you almost go to the

792
00:31:27,150 --> 00:31:25,030
homophobic or the person's in the closet

793
00:31:28,770 --> 00:31:27,160
or whatever no I mean you know well but

794
00:31:30,150 --> 00:31:28,780
no that's like I know even though even

795
00:31:32,220 --> 00:31:30,160
if a person is betrayed

796
00:31:34,350 --> 00:31:32,230
you shouldn't go violent so that's

797
00:31:36,420 --> 00:31:34,360
absolutely true yeah but the fact is

798
00:31:38,790 --> 00:31:36,430
we're talking about human behavior what

799
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:38,800
what I've seen it touch off and again

800
00:31:42,030 --> 00:31:40,690
there's no excuse for it but what the

801
00:31:44,190 --> 00:31:42,040
girls don't understand what the trans

802
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:44,200
girls don't understand is that they're

803
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:47,290
potentially igniting something that from

804
00:31:51,990 --> 00:31:49,210
in a guy that has never been prone to

805
00:31:54,090 --> 00:31:52,000
violence that's so behaviorally and

806
00:31:56,490 --> 00:31:54,100
instinctual that he goes into a rage

807
00:32:00,030 --> 00:31:56,500
right away unlike never before and

808
00:32:02,370 --> 00:32:00,040
causes violence and and so you're not

809
00:32:05,460 --> 00:32:02,380
just playing with a little bit of fire

810
00:32:07,770 --> 00:32:05,470
you're playing with your welfare by not

811
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:07,780
coming out and so I haven't feel when

812
00:32:11,100 --> 00:32:10,090
guys start flirting with me I mean

813
00:32:12,780 --> 00:32:11,110
someone relate you know I'm in a

814
00:32:15,450 --> 00:32:12,790
relationship so but I still have guys

815
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:15,460
flirt with me and I still will either

816
00:32:20,700 --> 00:32:17,290
get away from them or just tell them

817
00:32:23,580 --> 00:32:20,710
right away I'm trans because I really

818
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:23,590
protect myself from anyone who would

819
00:32:29,190 --> 00:32:25,570
have that rage can you could you kind of

820
00:32:31,860 --> 00:32:29,200
have a radar I was going to try and use

821
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:31,870
a different word related to radar not

822
00:32:37,770 --> 00:32:34,570
gaydar obviously but anyway a radar for

823
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:37,780
for a man that you think is so

824
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:39,730
heterosexual that hey he's flirting I

825
00:32:42,300 --> 00:32:41,170
mean he's not gonna be happy when he

826
00:32:44,670 --> 00:32:42,310
errs on trans so I'm just gonna go ahead

827
00:32:46,530 --> 00:32:44,680
and walk walk away now versus one that

828
00:32:51,060 --> 00:32:46,540
may in fact be interested no I don't in

829
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:51,070
fact um some guys in the past have come

830
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:52,810
unto me so hard that I actually thought

831
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:54,850
they knew I was trans and we're really

832
00:32:58,980 --> 00:32:56,650
excited about the notion of flirting

833
00:33:01,410 --> 00:32:58,990
with me only to tell them they're like

834
00:33:03,780 --> 00:33:01,420
whoa and they get away from me really

835
00:33:06,510 --> 00:33:03,790
fast you know and it's reactionary it's

836
00:33:08,370 --> 00:33:06,520
not a bias or I should say it's not a

837
00:33:10,530 --> 00:33:08,380
discriminatory thing it's a behavioral

838
00:33:14,460 --> 00:33:10,540
thing so no I have

839
00:33:17,190 --> 00:33:14,470
you know no sense on that so for a man

840
00:33:21,780 --> 00:33:17,200
that is interested in being with a trans

841
00:33:24,300 --> 00:33:21,790
woman your your assessment of that guy

842
00:33:28,140 --> 00:33:24,310
is basically that it's kind of an

843
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:28,150
in-between bisexual kind of attraction

844
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:28,930
yes

845
00:33:34,620 --> 00:33:31,330
no it's most guys who like trans women

846
00:33:36,570 --> 00:33:34,630
and there's kind of there's really kind

847
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:36,580
of two different guys who like trans

848
00:33:42,180 --> 00:33:40,570
woman their first one is guys who meet a

849
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:42,190
beautiful trans woman they don't really

850
00:33:46,770 --> 00:33:45,010
realize she's trans they they really

851
00:33:49,380 --> 00:33:46,780
fall in love with her as a woman and

852
00:33:52,020 --> 00:33:49,390
whether she tells on day one or not they

853
00:33:54,390 --> 00:33:52,030
they fall in love and they just learn to

854
00:33:56,850 --> 00:33:54,400
live with that aspect and and they work

855
00:33:58,500 --> 00:33:56,860
around it and they're not put off by it

856
00:34:01,770 --> 00:33:58,510
they're just again so in love and

857
00:34:04,650 --> 00:34:01,780
enamored by this woman that they're okay

858
00:34:08,909 --> 00:34:04,660
with the extra apparatus and then

859
00:34:11,700 --> 00:34:08,919
there's the other kind of guy who you

860
00:34:13,890 --> 00:34:11,710
know knows he likes trans just just like

861
00:34:16,050 --> 00:34:13,900
someone knows maybe that they're gay or

862
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:16,060
someone knows that they're straight a

863
00:34:20,460 --> 00:34:18,370
lot of guys just grow up with the

864
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:20,470
knowledge Wow I just like you know women

865
00:34:25,110 --> 00:34:22,330
with the tail between their legs it's

866
00:34:28,110 --> 00:34:25,120
just what they like and they're not

867
00:34:29,940 --> 00:34:28,120
afraid to express that so going back to

868
00:34:32,100 --> 00:34:29,950
college at that point you were kind of

869
00:34:34,350 --> 00:34:32,110
experimenting with both but primarily

870
00:34:35,909 --> 00:34:34,360
attracted to women yeah so I had a

871
00:34:39,060 --> 00:34:35,919
girlfriend all the way through college

872
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:39,070
um but again I hid this whole thing from

873
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:41,650
everybody so you know I'd go into you

874
00:34:45,180 --> 00:34:43,330
know this we went to UC Irvine Orange

875
00:34:48,030 --> 00:34:45,190
County so I Drive up relatively

876
00:34:50,700 --> 00:34:48,040
conservative area you really so I Drive

877
00:34:54,030 --> 00:34:50,710
up to Hollywood on weekends hang with

878
00:34:57,770 --> 00:34:54,040
trans sisters get into trouble have some

879
00:35:00,600 --> 00:34:57,780
fun be myself and then drive back down

880
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:00,610
so and and did you didn't share that

881
00:35:06,780 --> 00:35:03,850
with anybody at Irvine no way none of

882
00:35:08,790 --> 00:35:06,790
the fraternity brothers were aware of

883
00:35:11,490 --> 00:35:08,800
that no any the the first person outside

884
00:35:14,190 --> 00:35:11,500
of the another trans person I shared my

885
00:35:18,660 --> 00:35:14,200
quote unquote secret with was what

886
00:35:21,060 --> 00:35:18,670
became my wife when I was 24 years old

887
00:35:23,340 --> 00:35:21,070
and you met her at the river Mara

888
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:23,350
right yeah the river we should tell

889
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:23,650
people

890
00:35:27,630 --> 00:35:25,930
was a big weekend of debauchery that

891
00:35:30,510 --> 00:35:27,640
would happen once a year of Sigma Chi

892
00:35:33,060 --> 00:35:30,520
and its claim to fame was you wanted to

893
00:35:36,030 --> 00:35:33,070
outdo the number of kegs drank the prior

894
00:35:38,820 --> 00:35:36,040
year so you bunny hit like the 110

895
00:35:40,110 --> 00:35:38,830
number or whatever and of course a lot

896
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:40,120
of the beer descended up being thrown on

897
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:41,650
people's own wasn't necessarily drank

898
00:35:47,220 --> 00:35:44,650
but that that's a nice environment to to

899
00:35:48,590 --> 00:35:47,230
meet a nice woman that was very funny

900
00:35:51,900 --> 00:35:48,600
meeting she was actually there with

901
00:35:54,810 --> 00:35:51,910
another Sigma Chi brother unbeknownst to

902
00:35:58,020 --> 00:35:54,820
me oh oh actually had gone together had

903
00:36:01,260 --> 00:35:58,030
gone together and her best friend was a

904
00:36:04,140 --> 00:36:01,270
little sister and she saw me and as the

905
00:36:07,890 --> 00:36:04,150
story goes she said to Lenore who's that

906
00:36:11,070 --> 00:36:07,900
I want to marry him and and right then

907
00:36:12,510 --> 00:36:11,080
she was like crazy about me and which is

908
00:36:14,820 --> 00:36:12,520
fun because she's from Orange County and

909
00:36:16,230 --> 00:36:14,830
again by that I had long hair I just

910
00:36:18,990 --> 00:36:16,240
didn't look like anything she'd ever

911
00:36:22,500 --> 00:36:19,000
dated and it was love at first sight for

912
00:36:24,900 --> 00:36:22,510
her and you know we had a nice time

913
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:24,910
meeting at the river shortly after that

914
00:36:27,180 --> 00:36:26,290
we started dating and I ended up

915
00:36:29,370 --> 00:36:27,190
marrying her but she was the first

916
00:36:33,060 --> 00:36:29,380
person I came out to and it didn't go

917
00:36:34,650 --> 00:36:33,070
well so it almost perpetuated the notion

918
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:34,660
that yeah this is something I can't tell

919
00:36:41,370 --> 00:36:38,410
people so let's go back to the beginning

920
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:41,380
if you don't mind like where you were

921
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:43,410
born and let's talk about your childhood

922
00:36:48,830 --> 00:36:47,050
so born in here in Encino or I should

923
00:36:51,420 --> 00:36:48,840
say I was born in Hollywood Presbyterian

924
00:36:54,330 --> 00:36:51,430
adopted at Birth until a wealthy Jewish

925
00:36:58,050 --> 00:36:54,340
family I later found out I was half

926
00:36:59,190 --> 00:36:58,060
Mexican living si and so I'm adopted

927
00:37:03,690 --> 00:36:59,200
into a wealthy Jewish family from day

928
00:37:04,650 --> 00:37:03,700
one and grew up here in Encino do you

929
00:37:09,210 --> 00:37:04,660
know anything about your biological

930
00:37:14,060 --> 00:37:09,220
parents I do I am you know fast forward

931
00:37:16,500 --> 00:37:14,070
at age 20 my adopted mom passed away and

932
00:37:19,740 --> 00:37:16,510
at that point in time I asked my dad I

933
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:19,750
said you know mom's gone you never as a

934
00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:21,850
job retire you never want to disrespect

935
00:37:26,970 --> 00:37:24,730
the parents who raised you by asking

936
00:37:29,130 --> 00:37:26,980
about hey can I meet my birth parents

937
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:29,140
but once she passed away I said dad you

938
00:37:31,770 --> 00:37:31,090
know I'm kind of curious do you think

939
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:31,780
it's okay

940
00:37:35,100 --> 00:37:33,130
and he goes yeah and I knew I was

941
00:37:36,670 --> 00:37:35,110
adopted through a private attorney so he

942
00:37:38,230 --> 00:37:36,680
said here's the law firms name

943
00:37:41,230 --> 00:37:38,240
you give him a call and see where you go

944
00:37:44,079 --> 00:37:41,240
with this and that day I picked up the

945
00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:44,089
phone called that law firm said who I

946
00:37:50,109 --> 00:37:47,510
was and I said I'm looking for you know

947
00:37:51,790 --> 00:37:50,119
my birth parents and they said listen

948
00:37:53,650 --> 00:37:51,800
it's usually a dead end but we'll check

949
00:37:55,809 --> 00:37:53,660
your file and then came back to the

950
00:37:57,370 --> 00:37:55,819
phone compliment Slater and said Wow and

951
00:38:01,450 --> 00:37:57,380
had you know anything about them not

952
00:38:04,599 --> 00:38:01,460
nothing you know the way my lair I found

953
00:38:06,220 --> 00:38:04,609
out from my birth mom she really did

954
00:38:09,010 --> 00:38:06,230
protect the notion of that she adopted

955
00:38:11,410 --> 00:38:09,020
me and I needed to come find her before

956
00:38:13,359 --> 00:38:11,420
that was gonna happen so she had written

957
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:13,369
letter to the law firm on my 18th

958
00:38:16,809 --> 00:38:15,050
birthday saying that if I ever came

959
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:16,819
looking for her to give me this letter

960
00:38:23,380 --> 00:38:20,930
and I was it was one year after my mom

961
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:23,390
died so I was 21 when I made this call

962
00:38:27,010 --> 00:38:25,130
and they came back to the phone with

963
00:38:28,420 --> 00:38:27,020
this letter and said we have a letter

964
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:28,430
here for you it's apparently written

965
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:30,410
from your birth mom would you like us to

966
00:38:35,230 --> 00:38:33,410
read it I said yes and so they read this

967
00:38:38,589 --> 00:38:35,240
letter and she went on to say she's

968
00:38:43,990 --> 00:38:38,599
waited for this day my whole life and

969
00:38:46,750 --> 00:38:44,000
she had hope but didn't want to infringe

970
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:46,760
on on my life in any way and she wanted

971
00:38:50,650 --> 00:38:48,770
to respect what she had done but if I

972
00:38:53,770 --> 00:38:50,660
came looking she would love to meet me

973
00:38:55,059 --> 00:38:53,780
that same weekend that that day was on

974
00:38:57,250 --> 00:38:55,069
the phone talking with her and that

975
00:39:00,309 --> 00:38:57,260
weekend I went down to Orange County San

976
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:00,319
Diego and visited her Wow and did she

977
00:39:08,109 --> 00:39:03,170
share with you the story oh yeah

978
00:39:11,020 --> 00:39:08,119
so what was the story I was a result of

979
00:39:12,510 --> 00:39:11,030
a one-night stand with a married LAPD

980
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:12,520
officer

981
00:39:18,490 --> 00:39:15,530
sorry was she Mexican no she was a white

982
00:39:23,500 --> 00:39:18,500
girl okay and he was Mexican he was

983
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:23,510
married at 28 had some kids and they he

984
00:39:27,190 --> 00:39:25,010
had been hitting on her for months and

985
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:27,200
they had sex at a holiday party at

986
00:39:30,789 --> 00:39:28,730
Parker center downtown and that's where

987
00:39:33,430 --> 00:39:30,799
I was hatched that's where you were

988
00:39:36,220 --> 00:39:33,440
conceived yeah Sanna that was always a

989
00:39:37,569 --> 00:39:36,230
nice safe place to be conceived at yeah

990
00:39:42,700 --> 00:39:37,579
when I get pulled over these days I'm

991
00:39:45,130 --> 00:39:42,710
like are you my father my lineage so

992
00:39:47,109 --> 00:39:45,140
wait you said conceived at Parker's

993
00:39:49,060 --> 00:39:47,119
honor at Parker center uh-huh

994
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:49,070
so she was 19 at the time

995
00:39:54,430 --> 00:39:52,010
where was she from you know she grew up

996
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:54,440
in Big Bear and just a local girl and

997
00:39:58,510 --> 00:39:56,210
she's wanting to be an actress here in

998
00:40:02,650 --> 00:39:58,520
Los Angeles why she was a secretary at

999
00:40:05,230 --> 00:40:02,660
Parker center but thank you so much mom

1000
00:40:09,030 --> 00:40:05,240
for having me Yeah right yeah I mean

1001
00:40:12,370 --> 00:40:09,040
that would be just my just unbelievable

1002
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:12,380
overwhelming reaction to it because for

1003
00:40:15,790 --> 00:40:14,570
a 19 year old what an easy decision it

1004
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:15,800
would have been to have an abortion you

1005
00:40:19,870 --> 00:40:18,170
would think well this is 1963

1006
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:19,880
so abortion was illegal one of her

1007
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:22,370
friends recently died from having an

1008
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:24,290
illegal and abortion procedure and that

1009
00:40:28,540 --> 00:40:27,050
she said that's what made her convinced

1010
00:40:30,460 --> 00:40:28,550
her like she wasn't gonna do that around

1011
00:40:33,250 --> 00:40:30,470
she was gonna have the baby and she was

1012
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:33,260
gonna adopt me you know she said I was

1013
00:40:38,770 --> 00:40:35,930
19 if I decided to have you I would have

1014
00:40:41,110 --> 00:40:38,780
grown up hating you and you deserve

1015
00:40:42,670 --> 00:40:41,120
better so I found you a good home she

1016
00:40:44,860 --> 00:40:42,680
went to two law firms back then it was

1017
00:40:46,210 --> 00:40:44,870
more supply than demand these days it's

1018
00:40:49,180 --> 00:40:46,220
more demand than supply because

1019
00:40:51,970 --> 00:40:49,190
abortions legal and so it was very hard

1020
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:51,980
to place a healthy baby and so back then

1021
00:40:56,350 --> 00:40:54,530
only you know healthy white babies could

1022
00:40:58,870 --> 00:40:56,360
be placed and she went to the first two

1023
00:41:02,080 --> 00:40:58,880
law firms and running the application

1024
00:41:03,730 --> 00:41:02,090
you know father Hispanic they rejected

1025
00:41:07,510 --> 00:41:03,740
her outright she went to the third one

1026
00:41:09,310 --> 00:41:07,520
she lied and said father Caucasian cuz

1027
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:09,320
she said he was really more of a white

1028
00:41:13,510 --> 00:41:11,690
Mexican and from that point forward just

1029
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:13,520
she said she crossed her fingers and

1030
00:41:18,310 --> 00:41:14,810
hope that I've come out white and when I

1031
00:41:19,900 --> 00:41:18,320
finally came out why she was like so it

1032
00:41:21,430 --> 00:41:19,910
was very funny cuz years later once I

1033
00:41:23,340 --> 00:41:21,440
met her and came back home and told my

1034
00:41:25,750 --> 00:41:23,350
dad hey did you know I'm half Mexican

1035
00:41:33,310 --> 00:41:25,760
it's like he just found his Mercedes was

1036
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:33,320
a was a I want my money Mexicans are

1037
00:41:39,010 --> 00:41:36,290
beautiful wonderful people so you know

1038
00:41:41,290 --> 00:41:39,020
why you would think that I that's crazy

1039
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:41,300
it was that's crazy and it gives you a

1040
00:41:45,910 --> 00:41:43,490
little bit more olive skin or whatever

1041
00:41:48,730 --> 00:41:45,920
exactly normally give so I was actually

1042
00:41:52,270 --> 00:41:48,740
with my birth mom at her side when she

1043
00:41:54,940 --> 00:41:52,280
passed away which was like eight no wow

1044
00:41:56,830 --> 00:41:54,950
that's like ten years ago now so did you

1045
00:41:58,870 --> 00:41:56,840
have the reaction that I think I would

1046
00:42:01,760 --> 00:41:58,880
have which is just overall man gratitude

1047
00:42:03,829 --> 00:42:01,770
overall gratitude I always thought

1048
00:42:05,180 --> 00:42:03,839
you know I my adoptive parents always

1049
00:42:06,289 --> 00:42:05,190
told me from day one we were adopted

1050
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:06,299
that we said you know you were chosen

1051
00:42:11,150 --> 00:42:08,970
you weren't you know yeah and so I

1052
00:42:13,370 --> 00:42:11,160
always grew up with this feeling like I

1053
00:42:14,870 --> 00:42:13,380
had won the lottery like this is great

1054
00:42:16,730 --> 00:42:14,880
like I don't want to go looking for any

1055
00:42:17,930 --> 00:42:16,740
parents this this is this is this is

1056
00:42:23,059 --> 00:42:17,940
where I want to add cuz you said they

1057
00:42:26,359 --> 00:42:23,069
were wealthy yeah how to travel the

1058
00:42:29,779 --> 00:42:26,369
world all this great stuff so but do you

1059
00:42:32,539 --> 00:42:29,789
did it so you didn't harbor any feelings

1060
00:42:35,269 --> 00:42:32,549
of you know being unwanted or anything

1061
00:42:37,609 --> 00:42:35,279
like that no opposite the opposite yeah

1062
00:42:39,829 --> 00:42:37,619
and and you you you basically give them

1063
00:42:41,210 --> 00:42:39,839
credit for instilling that in you

1064
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:41,220
because I think that's not an uncommon

1065
00:42:45,289 --> 00:42:43,170
feeling for people who were adopted to

1066
00:42:48,620 --> 00:42:45,299
have is to so one it would be why didn't

1067
00:42:50,059 --> 00:42:48,630
my mom want me and it's kind of it right

1068
00:42:51,589 --> 00:42:50,069
I mean I don't know if he matures right

1069
00:42:53,150 --> 00:42:51,599
but it seems like it almost an immature

1070
00:42:56,510 --> 00:42:53,160
way of singer but I know it that is a

1071
00:42:58,819 --> 00:42:56,520
common a lot of people think you know I

1072
00:43:01,279 --> 00:42:58,829
mean they're born into let's say less

1073
00:43:03,589 --> 00:43:01,289
than incredible circumstances or they're

1074
00:43:06,859 --> 00:43:03,599
adopted into a home that's maybe not

1075
00:43:07,730 --> 00:43:06,869
wealthy that's just you know and you

1076
00:43:09,710 --> 00:43:07,740
know they scratch their heads and

1077
00:43:12,650 --> 00:43:09,720
thinking well maybe I'm maybe I'm

1078
00:43:15,170 --> 00:43:12,660
royalty you know maybe maybe I was given

1079
00:43:18,980 --> 00:43:15,180
away by right all right I do queer

1080
00:43:22,490 --> 00:43:18,990
prints right instead nope LAPD officer

1081
00:43:24,710 --> 00:43:22,500
and now what about you haven't tracked

1082
00:43:26,809 --> 00:43:24,720
him down no you know she she never had

1083
00:43:29,720 --> 00:43:26,819
very good words about him she certainly

1084
00:43:31,190 --> 00:43:29,730
said she told him and he denied it said

1085
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:31,200
he was impotent but she's like you're

1086
00:43:36,410 --> 00:43:34,650
the only one I slept with honey and she

1087
00:43:39,769 --> 00:43:36,420
said when she first met me she goes oh

1088
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:39,779
yeah you're Ben's kid so she told you

1089
00:43:42,260 --> 00:43:40,650
who it was though

1090
00:43:45,049 --> 00:43:42,270
show me who it was told me the whole

1091
00:43:47,029 --> 00:43:45,059
story um told me you you know he was a

1092
00:43:50,420 --> 00:43:47,039
jerk to her so it wasn't something I

1093
00:43:51,980 --> 00:43:50,430
really wanted part yet pursue did she

1094
00:43:54,410 --> 00:43:51,990
indicate whether she cared whether you

1095
00:43:56,029 --> 00:43:54,420
pursued it or not she didn't she didn't

1096
00:43:58,099 --> 00:43:56,039
care so here's what biz if you want to

1097
00:43:59,660 --> 00:43:58,109
go track him down go ahead correct and

1098
00:44:02,650 --> 00:43:59,670
you just made the decision yeah you know

1099
00:44:04,849 --> 00:44:02,660
I got close with her pretty quick and

1100
00:44:06,740 --> 00:44:04,859
really appreciate the relationship so I

1101
00:44:08,150 --> 00:44:06,750
just had respect for her thought you

1102
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:08,160
know this is this is great I also

1103
00:44:13,170 --> 00:44:10,090
inherited in that

1104
00:44:16,470 --> 00:44:13,180
I have a half-brother who we are really

1105
00:44:20,610 --> 00:44:16,480
close he's a great uncle to my daughters

1106
00:44:22,380 --> 00:44:20,620
and so I and a half-sister as well so

1107
00:44:24,420 --> 00:44:22,390
you know I got some great family through

1108
00:44:26,250 --> 00:44:24,430
this and it was a really nice surprise

1109
00:44:29,100 --> 00:44:26,260
most people don't get two mothers in

1110
00:44:30,420 --> 00:44:29,110
their life so you know just to be

1111
00:44:32,310 --> 00:44:30,430
upfront about it one of the reasons I'm

1112
00:44:34,410 --> 00:44:32,320
asking questions about childhood or

1113
00:44:36,570 --> 00:44:34,420
early childhood is that you know there's

1114
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:36,580
this question mark as to nature nurture

1115
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:40,450
and so on and what what causes transit

1116
00:44:45,050 --> 00:44:42,010
cetera I mean first of all let me just

1117
00:44:48,090 --> 00:44:45,060
asked you have a belief as to what

1118
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:48,100
causes yes yes what was that

1119
00:44:53,700 --> 00:44:51,010
so you know I believe this is absolutely

1120
00:44:56,850 --> 00:44:53,710
a spiritual condition mankind is

1121
00:45:00,990 --> 00:44:56,860
essentially four things physical mental

1122
00:45:02,430 --> 00:45:01,000
emotional and spiritual and so I have

1123
00:45:06,030 --> 00:45:02,440
always felt that this is a spiritual

1124
00:45:08,610 --> 00:45:06,040
condition you know it's this intuitive

1125
00:45:09,870 --> 00:45:08,620
thing in your image sorry we talked

1126
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:09,880
about spirituality could you just share

1127
00:45:12,750 --> 00:45:10,930
everything real quick before we go into

1128
00:45:17,250 --> 00:45:12,760
it sorry to interrupt what what were you

1129
00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:17,260
raised as far as yeah but spiritual

1130
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:21,250
Jewish or practicing Jewish or you know

1131
00:45:25,110 --> 00:45:22,930
went to Hebrew school for seven years

1132
00:45:28,380 --> 00:45:25,120
but you know well you will you into it

1133
00:45:30,750 --> 00:45:28,390
or you know what what kid is really into

1134
00:45:32,420 --> 00:45:30,760
you know faith and religion and a young

1135
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:32,430
age it's generally aren't they're not

1136
00:45:38,130 --> 00:45:35,770
raised with a lot of right per se but

1137
00:45:40,860 --> 00:45:38,140
you know we're all spiritual being you

1138
00:45:43,290 --> 00:45:40,870
have a spiritual indwelling you know

1139
00:45:45,150 --> 00:45:43,300
when you die your body goes lifeless and

1140
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:45,160
you know people talk about the spirit

1141
00:45:50,490 --> 00:45:48,130
leaving so well they talk about it but I

1142
00:45:52,260 --> 00:45:50,500
don't know I'm so struggling with

1143
00:45:54,270 --> 00:45:52,270
whether there's a spirit or not I would

1144
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:54,280
love to believe it but um I'm a little

1145
00:46:00,510 --> 00:45:56,770
skeptical so you know life isn't that's

1146
00:46:03,780 --> 00:46:00,520
a whole nother dialogue but you know I I

1147
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:03,790
don't believe life is you know chemistry

1148
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:08,410
I believe life is spirit there's an

1149
00:46:13,380 --> 00:46:11,530
ether of life in everything that's

1150
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:13,390
living and I think it's in us and so I

1151
00:46:20,310 --> 00:46:16,930
feel very much when I was young the way

1152
00:46:22,290 --> 00:46:20,320
I felt was I I can't say that I was like

1153
00:46:23,079 --> 00:46:22,300
oh I'm definitely a girl but I felt

1154
00:46:25,900 --> 00:46:23,089
different

1155
00:46:27,969 --> 00:46:25,910
felt much like a girl I felt like I was

1156
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:27,979
born with all girls attribute side a

1157
00:46:32,620 --> 00:46:30,410
girl's body wears a lot of trans women

1158
00:46:36,279 --> 00:46:32,630
or actually squarely built with a guy's

1159
00:46:39,029 --> 00:46:36,289
body you know I was tiny I you know was

1160
00:46:44,559 --> 00:46:39,039
you know had a 24 inch waist in college

1161
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:44,569
that was my natural condition and so you

1162
00:46:48,729 --> 00:46:46,249
know I always felt physically like a

1163
00:46:50,380 --> 00:46:48,739
girl but my spiritual enjoy life I felt

1164
00:46:53,079 --> 00:46:50,390
different and I couldn't put my finger

1165
00:46:54,729 --> 00:46:53,089
on it I didn't know what this was but I

1166
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:54,739
just felt different and so you don't

1167
00:46:58,569 --> 00:46:56,690
talk about it and we're going back to

1168
00:47:00,640 --> 00:46:58,579
earliest time you're having these

1169
00:47:03,489 --> 00:47:00,650
thoughts as what so there are some how

1170
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:03,499
many sauces prog around five you know

1171
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:05,210
when you start have a consciousness

1172
00:47:10,180 --> 00:47:07,729
about who you are and I hear stories

1173
00:47:12,549 --> 00:47:10,190
from people who said oh you know like at

1174
00:47:13,779 --> 00:47:12,559
two I knew well you don't even you don't

1175
00:47:15,670 --> 00:47:13,789
have a memory at you I mean how could

1176
00:47:17,559 --> 00:47:15,680
you yeah I I think there's things about

1177
00:47:19,660 --> 00:47:17,569
you that the parents could notice but do

1178
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:19,670
you really know about yourself so I

1179
00:47:23,859 --> 00:47:20,930
think at best you know something's

1180
00:47:26,339 --> 00:47:23,869
different about yourself and you know

1181
00:47:29,229 --> 00:47:26,349
for youngsters who and I also feel that

1182
00:47:32,249 --> 00:47:29,239
all the trans people are different so

1183
00:47:36,940 --> 00:47:32,259
some of us have a much more stronger

1184
00:47:39,700 --> 00:47:36,950
propensity and identity of female male

1185
00:47:42,579 --> 00:47:39,710
than than others I feel like mine was

1186
00:47:46,479 --> 00:47:42,589
probably more middle of the road like it

1187
00:47:48,279 --> 00:47:46,489
leaned obviously female but I didn't

1188
00:47:50,289 --> 00:47:48,289
just wake up at 5:00 and go I'm a girl

1189
00:47:53,289 --> 00:47:50,299
you know I just I felt that were you

1190
00:47:55,390 --> 00:47:53,299
doing more girl type things or like I

1191
00:47:57,219 --> 00:47:55,400
were a girl I wore as much girl close as

1192
00:47:59,890 --> 00:47:57,229
I could get away with so I didn't you

1193
00:48:02,229 --> 00:47:59,900
couldn't wear a dress to school but I'd

1194
00:48:05,979 --> 00:48:02,239
wear just like you know by time I was I

1195
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:05,989
felt I found a lot of refuge I you know

1196
00:48:10,150 --> 00:48:08,210
became I playing drums since I could

1197
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:10,160
remember I got in rock bands since I

1198
00:48:15,339 --> 00:48:13,130
could remember and back then you know

1199
00:48:18,609 --> 00:48:15,349
rockers were tight clothes and cutoff

1200
00:48:21,999 --> 00:48:18,619
shirts and jewelry and earrings and

1201
00:48:24,279 --> 00:48:22,009
makeup and so I you know was a total

1202
00:48:26,229 --> 00:48:24,289
rocker but I found refuge in who I was

1203
00:48:28,359 --> 00:48:26,239
through that as well like I could have

1204
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:28,369
long hair and all the things that I was

1205
00:48:31,299 --> 00:48:29,690
wondering about that we're going to get

1206
00:48:33,579 --> 00:48:31,309
into your rock'n'roll stage but how much

1207
00:48:36,069 --> 00:48:33,589
of your attraction to rock and roll was

1208
00:48:36,490 --> 00:48:36,079
the fact that you could act out some of

1209
00:48:38,650 --> 00:48:36,500
your

1210
00:48:40,150 --> 00:48:38,660
trans feelings is that really what drew

1211
00:48:42,310 --> 00:48:40,160
you to it or was that a secondary to it

1212
00:48:43,930 --> 00:48:42,320
was it was secondary like I loved rock

1213
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:43,940
music but the fact that I could be

1214
00:48:49,150 --> 00:48:46,850
myself within that was really I mean was

1215
00:48:53,050 --> 00:48:49,160
a lot of refuge but what age did you

1216
00:48:55,720 --> 00:48:53,060
start playing drums like five five yeah

1217
00:49:00,670 --> 00:48:55,730
I had my first drum set by the time I

1218
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:00,680
was 12 my first rock band 13 I was

1219
00:49:06,670 --> 00:49:03,410
recording by the time I was 14 in a

1220
00:49:09,420 --> 00:49:06,680
major studio and at so at five what

1221
00:49:13,090 --> 00:49:09,430
about your friends male or female

1222
00:49:14,620 --> 00:49:13,100
interesting I had a lot of little little

1223
00:49:19,630 --> 00:49:14,630
girlfriends I just five better with

1224
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:19,640
girls um you know I love sports though

1225
00:49:27,010 --> 00:49:22,370
by the way I've always loved sports it's

1226
00:49:29,290 --> 00:49:27,020
funny now I feel like if I had been born

1227
00:49:31,450 --> 00:49:29,300
a female I would have been much more

1228
00:49:34,510 --> 00:49:31,460
opportunity in sports because I would

1229
00:49:36,100 --> 00:49:34,520
have fit but when you're born with a

1230
00:49:37,900 --> 00:49:36,110
girl's body and trying and have this

1231
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:37,910
passion for sports you get rejected

1232
00:49:43,030 --> 00:49:40,130
because you don't look like a strong

1233
00:49:44,650 --> 00:49:43,040
male competitor and so coaches misjudge

1234
00:49:46,540 --> 00:49:44,660
you and you don't get opportunities I

1235
00:49:48,580 --> 00:49:46,550
saw Joe playing anything like it like

1236
00:49:50,830 --> 00:49:48,590
everything played tackle football played

1237
00:49:52,660 --> 00:49:50,840
basketball played baseball player and

1238
00:49:57,850 --> 00:49:52,670
still to this day I played baseball and

1239
00:49:59,380 --> 00:49:57,860
softball mm-hmm so what would tell me

1240
00:50:03,550 --> 00:49:59,390
about your relationship with with each

1241
00:50:04,870 --> 00:50:03,560
of your parents and I want to hear more

1242
00:50:07,870 --> 00:50:04,880
about your thoughts about spirituality

1243
00:50:10,780 --> 00:50:07,880
too and in why you think that the you

1244
00:50:14,230 --> 00:50:10,790
know the the trans almond is a spiritual

1245
00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:14,240
thing so and I feel spiritual because it

1246
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:16,250
wasn't even though I had was born like

1247
00:50:20,470 --> 00:50:17,570
with this girl's body it wasn't like I

1248
00:50:22,750 --> 00:50:20,480
was looking oh I look like a girl it was

1249
00:50:25,030 --> 00:50:22,760
a feeling on the inside like I felt

1250
00:50:28,690 --> 00:50:25,040
different and that was the thing that

1251
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:28,700
really like made me stir inside

1252
00:50:33,430 --> 00:50:31,130
fortunately I had you know my dad was a

1253
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:33,440
hard-working guy he was also just into

1254
00:50:38,890 --> 00:50:35,570
like letting you be yourself but my mom

1255
00:50:42,820 --> 00:50:38,900
she was a stay-at-home mom and she just

1256
00:50:46,570 --> 00:50:42,830
really really lets you be you sometimes

1257
00:50:49,900 --> 00:50:46,580
I wonder if she knew and just supported

1258
00:50:51,789 --> 00:50:49,910
it quietly or just was so clueless but

1259
00:50:54,370 --> 00:50:51,799
you know when she'd say like you know

1260
00:50:55,990 --> 00:50:54,380
and fall to get new clothes for school

1261
00:50:58,180 --> 00:50:56,000
she's I'm gonna go shopping for a pose

1262
00:51:00,400 --> 00:50:58,190
for you what do you want I go oh chemin

1263
00:51:02,500 --> 00:51:00,410
de fer jeans and you know these crop

1264
00:51:04,150 --> 00:51:02,510
tops and stuff she would never go are

1265
00:51:06,190 --> 00:51:04,160
you sure you know she'd never question

1266
00:51:08,470 --> 00:51:06,200
it she was just bring it home and let me

1267
00:51:09,730 --> 00:51:08,480
wear it and I just couldn't believe half

1268
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:09,740
the time that I was getting away with

1269
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:11,210
getting wear wearing this stuff and no

1270
00:51:14,950 --> 00:51:12,770
one would question it and what about in

1271
00:51:17,500 --> 00:51:14,960
school we were children recognizing that

1272
00:51:19,289 --> 00:51:17,510
these are girl clothes you know I got I

1273
00:51:22,420 --> 00:51:19,299
was already getting beat up a bunch

1274
00:51:24,069 --> 00:51:22,430
again if you're at what age from the

1275
00:51:26,049 --> 00:51:24,079
littlest age I can remember because I

1276
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:26,059
was the little one my garden I was like

1277
00:51:31,750 --> 00:51:28,490
you know among guys I was a little thing

1278
00:51:34,510 --> 00:51:31,760
and yet I was you know appearing as a

1279
00:51:36,010 --> 00:51:34,520
guy I was a guy so I get beat up a lot

1280
00:51:38,289 --> 00:51:36,020
and so I was already getting beat up a

1281
00:51:40,180 --> 00:51:38,299
lot and so but you're wearing girls

1282
00:51:42,579 --> 00:51:40,190
clothing so is that playing a role in

1283
00:51:44,079 --> 00:51:42,589
them beating you up no it was the

1284
00:51:48,250 --> 00:51:44,089
typical thing you know the rent on the

1285
00:51:52,059 --> 00:51:48,260
yard guys you know we were UC Pickens

1286
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:52,069
yeah guys guys that's you know I hate to

1287
00:51:55,539 --> 00:51:53,930
say that that's how guys are but that's

1288
00:51:57,609 --> 00:51:55,549
how guys are on the schoolyard I mean

1289
00:51:59,440 --> 00:51:57,619
that's gotta be I mean pretty traumatic

1290
00:52:03,069 --> 00:51:59,450
right I mean was that really traumatic

1291
00:52:05,559 --> 00:52:03,079
yeah yeah do you think that played any

1292
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:05,569
role and anything that you're getting

1293
00:52:11,950 --> 00:52:08,410
beat up and now you're retreating from

1294
00:52:13,539 --> 00:52:11,960
hanging out with guys or maleness no no

1295
00:52:16,420 --> 00:52:13,549
it made me a fighter in life you know

1296
00:52:18,190 --> 00:52:16,430
that thing you know whatever doesn't

1297
00:52:21,339 --> 00:52:18,200
break you makes you stronger I think it

1298
00:52:23,829 --> 00:52:21,349
definitely made me stronger you know

1299
00:52:27,700 --> 00:52:23,839
I literally fight for a living these

1300
00:52:29,859 --> 00:52:27,710
days in what I do and I feel you know

1301
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:29,869
being picked on at such young age I

1302
00:52:35,230 --> 00:52:32,210
didn't fold to and I would try and fight

1303
00:52:37,029 --> 00:52:35,240
back and I'd get beat harder for it but

1304
00:52:39,359 --> 00:52:37,039
I'd still fight as hard as I could and

1305
00:52:41,380 --> 00:52:39,369
so I think it made me stronger overall

1306
00:52:43,890 --> 00:52:41,390
but yeah it's really traumatic when

1307
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:43,900
you're getting beat up yes so you know

1308
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:46,130
again I kind of raised this as the

1309
00:52:50,019 --> 00:52:47,930
nature versus nurture thing you're

1310
00:52:51,730 --> 00:52:50,029
actually raising a third thing because

1311
00:52:52,660 --> 00:52:51,740
you know what reading I've done on it is

1312
00:52:54,910 --> 00:52:52,670
there's a lot of people that believe

1313
00:52:57,250 --> 00:52:54,920
that that you could be born with this

1314
00:52:59,349 --> 00:52:57,260
and something hormonal or something then

1315
00:53:01,269 --> 00:52:59,359
there's a lot of discussion about early

1316
00:53:03,370 --> 00:53:01,279
in childhood you know whether it be

1317
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:03,380
abuse or neglect

1318
00:53:08,529 --> 00:53:05,210
lack of a bonding with a wit with a

1319
00:53:10,180 --> 00:53:08,539
father or so forth what's your where do

1320
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:10,190
you come down on all that if you kind of

1321
00:53:15,220 --> 00:53:12,170
done your own thinking and research on

1322
00:53:17,529 --> 00:53:15,230
all that so again fortunately being born

1323
00:53:18,970 --> 00:53:17,539
in this city I've been privy to meeting

1324
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:18,980
hundreds and hundreds of trans women

1325
00:53:24,370 --> 00:53:21,890
knowing their full stories and you know

1326
00:53:25,749 --> 00:53:24,380
there wasn't any one story any two

1327
00:53:27,519 --> 00:53:25,759
stories that were alike you know

1328
00:53:31,059 --> 00:53:27,529
everyone came from different backgrounds

1329
00:53:33,339 --> 00:53:31,069
a lot of the my early friends were Latin

1330
00:53:36,069 --> 00:53:33,349
American from Central America and they

1331
00:53:37,630 --> 00:53:36,079
all had different stories so no two

1332
00:53:39,870 --> 00:53:37,640
stories were alike and even among my

1333
00:53:42,039 --> 00:53:39,880
friends these days they're all from

1334
00:53:43,690 --> 00:53:42,049
really different backgrounds I'm most

1335
00:53:46,749 --> 00:53:43,700
from wealthy friends from from poor

1336
00:53:49,210 --> 00:53:46,759
families some are born minorities

1337
00:53:50,890 --> 00:53:49,220
already some you know are why it just

1338
00:53:52,990 --> 00:53:50,900
really didn't matter there was such

1339
00:53:56,049 --> 00:53:53,000
diversity and it was happening equally

1340
00:53:58,029 --> 00:53:56,059
in men and women you know wasn't like it

1341
00:54:01,749 --> 00:53:58,039
wasn't like 1% of the male population

1342
00:54:04,749 --> 00:54:01,759
strands and only 0.006 percent of female

1343
00:54:05,980 --> 00:54:04,759
or trans it's pretty equal so one of

1344
00:54:08,410 --> 00:54:05,990
those things that it tells you if it's

1345
00:54:11,259 --> 00:54:08,420
equal and it's happening among a very

1346
00:54:14,049 --> 00:54:11,269
stable base of human population well

1347
00:54:16,990 --> 00:54:14,059
this is just the thing and so it happens

1348
00:54:18,730 --> 00:54:17,000
and you can try and point and go it's

1349
00:54:20,829 --> 00:54:18,740
biological that something happened in

1350
00:54:22,329 --> 00:54:20,839
the womb or something but from my own

1351
00:54:25,299 --> 00:54:22,339
experience I can tell you that it was a

1352
00:54:27,700 --> 00:54:25,309
very spiritual experience because you

1353
00:54:30,279 --> 00:54:27,710
know I get you know later what preceded

1354
00:54:32,499 --> 00:54:30,289
me actually doing formal transition I

1355
00:54:34,359 --> 00:54:32,509
went through like ten years of a

1356
00:54:37,240 --> 00:54:34,369
spiritual search of abandoning

1357
00:54:40,630 --> 00:54:37,250
everything about who I thought I was and

1358
00:54:45,329 --> 00:54:40,640
living a almost like a life a pious life

1359
00:54:48,460 --> 00:54:45,339
of a saint and it was at the end of that

1360
00:54:50,140 --> 00:54:48,470
spiritual search that I really found

1361
00:54:53,410 --> 00:54:50,150
myself and when this was still waiting

1362
00:54:54,940 --> 00:54:53,420
there this was still inside you know I'd

1363
00:54:57,670 --> 00:54:54,950
always thought oh there's something may

1364
00:54:59,529 --> 00:54:57,680
be wrong with me but at the I was I was

1365
00:55:00,999 --> 00:54:59,539
never on more sure footing than at the

1366
00:55:02,980 --> 00:55:01,009
end of that ten-year spiritual search

1367
00:55:04,390 --> 00:55:02,990
and this was still waiting there inside

1368
00:55:06,519 --> 00:55:04,400
it was like one of the most pure things

1369
00:55:07,809 --> 00:55:06,529
inside of me and was inside of me wasn't

1370
00:55:09,549 --> 00:55:07,819
about fulfilling something on the

1371
00:55:11,289 --> 00:55:09,559
outside was about the spiritual

1372
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:11,299
condition on the inside that I needed to

1373
00:55:15,100 --> 00:55:12,410
fulfill

1374
00:55:17,470 --> 00:55:15,110
and then it was a matter of undertaking

1375
00:55:19,510 --> 00:55:17,480
the physical steps in transition taking

1376
00:55:22,900 --> 00:55:19,520
the estrogen particularly with that

1377
00:55:24,550 --> 00:55:22,910
bridged physical with the spiritual and

1378
00:55:28,990 --> 00:55:24,560
I feel that's where the harmony really

1379
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:29,000
took it was a spiritual awareness for

1380
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:31,370
you but does that basically mean that

1381
00:55:37,810 --> 00:55:33,170
you believe that you were born with a

1382
00:55:40,750 --> 00:55:37,820
female spirit yes so basically there was

1383
00:55:42,610 --> 00:55:40,760
a misalignment between your gender that

1384
00:55:43,180 --> 00:55:42,620
you're born with in your inherent spirit

1385
00:55:46,030 --> 00:55:43,190
yeah

1386
00:55:48,460 --> 00:55:46,040
and is this something that others kind

1387
00:55:53,980 --> 00:55:48,470
of share with you that they kind of that

1388
00:55:55,690 --> 00:55:53,990
they identify with that thinking you

1389
00:55:59,020 --> 00:55:55,700
know I don't think there's any consensus

1390
00:56:01,710 --> 00:55:59,030
whether it's among physicians I you know

1391
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:01,720
when I learned from the Kaiser

1392
00:56:05,980 --> 00:56:04,610
interviews with they're still scratching

1393
00:56:09,700 --> 00:56:05,990
their heads trying to figure this out

1394
00:56:13,540 --> 00:56:09,710
they're asking questions and trying to

1395
00:56:15,220 --> 00:56:13,550
understand this you know and you know to

1396
00:56:16,240 --> 00:56:15,230
be honest you know again I do I

1397
00:56:17,740 --> 00:56:16,250
definitely see some of the younger

1398
00:56:20,670 --> 00:56:17,750
population now that it's becoming more

1399
00:56:24,430 --> 00:56:20,680
socially acceptable I'm seeing younger

1400
00:56:26,170 --> 00:56:24,440
kids coming out and realizing that they

1401
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:26,180
are this and then going all the way

1402
00:56:31,060 --> 00:56:29,210
right away but they seem to have much

1403
00:56:32,740 --> 00:56:31,070
more internal direction on this like

1404
00:56:35,410 --> 00:56:32,750
they were certain they're a girl they

1405
00:56:36,820 --> 00:56:35,420
were certain they were a boy and you

1406
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:36,830
know the point that they're they are

1407
00:56:40,540 --> 00:56:38,930
five two other mom get these clothes off

1408
00:56:44,110 --> 00:56:40,550
me I don't want to wear a dress I want

1409
00:56:46,720 --> 00:56:44,120
to wear boys clothes you know and who

1410
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:46,730
would five has the wherewithal unless it

1411
00:56:49,180 --> 00:56:48,650
is a spiritual Inge willing to have that

1412
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:49,190
direction

1413
00:56:52,930 --> 00:56:51,290
mm-hmm you know when we talk about the

1414
00:56:57,610 --> 00:56:52,940
spirit it doesn't have to be something

1415
00:56:59,680 --> 00:56:57,620
about God or or anything faith-based or

1416
00:57:02,680 --> 00:56:59,690
religious space but you know when I

1417
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:02,690
asked you Jim like who are you you could

1418
00:57:09,190 --> 00:57:05,810
say oh I'm a guy or oh I'm this I'm this

1419
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:09,200
age or this but who are you really the

1420
00:57:12,550 --> 00:57:10,970
things you would express and describe to

1421
00:57:16,090 --> 00:57:12,560
me are about things aren't on the inside

1422
00:57:18,220 --> 00:57:16,100
of you not the outside right yeah and

1423
00:57:20,410 --> 00:57:18,230
with that we wrapped up our first night

1424
00:57:22,990 --> 00:57:20,420
of discussion I think she and I were

1425
00:57:25,420 --> 00:57:23,000
both ready to go longer but our producer

1426
00:57:26,230 --> 00:57:25,430
had kids to tend to so we agreed to get

1427
00:57:28,210 --> 00:57:26,240
together again

1428
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:28,220
the following Wednesday night make gin

1429
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:30,530
and tonics and sit down for further

1430
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:33,650
discussion about her transition and

1431
00:57:37,090 --> 00:57:34,850
everything about the transgender

1432
00:57:38,950 --> 00:57:37,100
movement if you want to hear parts two

1433
00:57:40,870 --> 00:57:38,960
and three of the podcasts check it out

1434
00:57:42,970 --> 00:57:40,880
wherever you listen to podcasts hidden

1435
00:57:45,750 --> 00:57:42,980
truth show transgender movement

1436
00:57:47,470 --> 00:57:45,760
I'm Jim Breslow thanks for watching

1437
00:57:47,860 --> 00:57:47,480
[Music]